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The not so great engine debate
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 1:37 pm Reply with quote
StretchASU
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Figured I would throw this up to spark a little convo and pick some of your minds...

If you were going to build something from the ground up and were choosing your powerplant from these following options, what would it be and why?

Option 1: Build a fresh 22r on propane and make some provisions in the build to take some boost later on.
Option 2: Build a 20r/22r hybrid (cam, bigger valve, springs etc) on propane
Option 3: 2rz/3rz with a standalone harness with the basics to make it run and an OBD port to pull codes if necessary.
Option 4: Whatever 22r you find, propane, beat the sh&%t out of it and keep on goin.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:02 pm Reply with quote
sgtbriangreen
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I would start with whatever 22R that I could find and throw some propane at it. I would also get one on an engine stand and start building it with some better guts and a DAWG head.

The 22R family is simple. Most of us run one so we all know how they work if something starts acting up. Parts are interchangable so only one of us needs to have an alternator and starter back at camp.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Sleepy
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I'm with Brian on this one.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Cumminsdzl
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Thought #1 standard rebuilt 22r on propane.
As much as i would love to have a nice built engine that makes good power, i feel like i would feel bad treating it the way our engines get treated. If i had a couple grand in a nice motor and i get laid over on my side, see the oil pressure dropping, im going to shut it down. When you have a standard ole 22r, just keep on going and deal with the consequences later.

Thought #2 standard rebuilt 22r on propane with turbo
Same deal, treat it like trash and see how long it will put up with the boost.

Thought #3 2rz/3rz
Fuel injection and nice modern engines that arent going to run hot, or have any of the normal issues an engine built in 1980 has are nice. Pulling up to the gas station to fill up wins over filling a propane tank every time too. Not going to be super cheap though. By the time its in the truck and running, you will be in it more than you want to be i bet.


I feel like you missed the obvious choice though. Whats modern, loves to rev, tough as nails, 325+hp and as cheap to buy as a rebuilt 22r? I know you know the answer..... Laughing


I would go with a dawg-built 22r on propane with a turbo making just enough boost to have fun and see how long it lasts. If making a few provisions to handle boost is cheap, then go for it, but dont sink a fortune into a motor that will be abused. If this vehicle has a toyota drive train, then i think about 150hp is all the rest of the truck can put up with for very long.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:17 pm Reply with quote
StretchASU
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Cumminsdzl wrote:
I feel like you missed the obvious choice though. Whats modern, loves to rev, tough as nails, 325+hp and as cheap to buy as a rebuilt 22r? I know you know the answer..... Laughing


I would go with a dawg-built 22r on propane with a turbo making just enough boost to have fun and see how long it lasts. If making a few provisions to handle boost is cheap, then go for it, but dont sink a fortune into a motor that will be abused. If this vehicle has a toyota drive train, then i think about 150hp is all the rest of the truck can put up with for very long.


Laughing I knew Kyle "CumminsdzldriveafordlovesanLSmotor" Jeffries couldn't respond without instigating that little engine factoid. Laughing I would love to drop one in a rig. But it goes against everything I have learned in my years of build/vehicle ADD. Light, Low, Simple. Now...to put one in something like my old M3...different story all together. The krautlovers can slurp it while an aluminum block sings the song of my people.

The whole propaned 22r is just too tried and true to beat. I do agree with everyones logic behind the whole beat the crap out of a fairly inexpensive engine and carry as few spares as possible approach.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:40 pm Reply with quote
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the 3rz with fuel inj and a stand alone harness would be hard to beat.
i don't know what they are selling for in the junkyard but being toyota
branded they are probly pricey.

for a dead nuts reliable eng a rebuilt 22r is kinda hard to beat but
any stock rebuild top to bottom is gonna top the grand mark easy.
more like 12-1500.00.

a hot rod 20/22 can be 2 to 3 grand easy cause parts like arp
head studs- rod bolts - high compression pistons make the cost
rise. that combined with the extra labor involved in balancing
the rods/ pistons / crank, swril (sp) polishing the valves,
porting and polishing the intake and exaust runners in the head
take up lots of time. all that sh&%t adds up in a hurry. all that is
assuming that you start with a good usable head (pressure tested
with no cracks) and a good block. machine work is pricy.

all that being said and assuming that a man can get a low mileage
3rz and do all the harness work himself i think that'd be the most
cheap way to go.

or LS series chevy. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:09 pm Reply with quote
Cumminsdzl
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StretchASU wrote:


Laughing Kyle "CumminsdzldriveafordlovesanLSmotor" Jeffries.



HAHA pretty much nailed that one. I'm a mixed up mofo. Laughing


My problem with just going with another 22r on pane is we know what it will do. I feel like you can go to harlan and name all the trails a 22r will allow you to run. Those trails are fun, and can be tough. It just bugs me that there are those other trails that there is no need to even try. Maybe another 30-50 hp will give you some new options, so for me it couldnt be just another 22r on pane.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm Reply with quote
StretchASU
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Cumminsdzl wrote:
My problem with just going with another 22r on pane is we know what it will do. I feel like you can go to harlan and name all the trails a 22r will allow you to run. Those trails are fun, and can be tough. It just bugs me that there are those other trails that there is no need to even try. Maybe another 30-50 hp will give you some new options, so for me it couldnt be just another 22r on pane.


You sir are thinking the exact same way I am. I don't necessarily think you HAVE to have an LS, but you're right an extra 30-50hp (turbo or 3rz) could be a nice addition to access some stuff you wouldn't normally be able to run, especially in the wet. Its just that the LS is just a slippery slope to tons, big tires and a heavy ass rig to hold all that stuff. Hell my last one was hovering around 4000 with just the Toy drivetrain and about as little tube as I was comfortable with.

Call it nostalgia, but I just keep looking back at the simpler times when the combo of moderate power, light and simple rigs got it done on pretty much everything you could think of. Stuff like Cassidy's single seat and PJ's first toy powered buggy.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:38 pm Reply with quote
Cumminsdzl
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I agree on the ls stuff. Simple light weight parts and HP dont mix for very long.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:42 pm Reply with quote
Yotaoffroad27
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3rz all day. 155hp 177tq vs a 22r that has.... 96hp? 110~tq??? By the time you get all the propane stuff you could put that extra $$ into the cost of a 3rz.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:00 am Reply with quote
StretchASU
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Yeah I keep looking at the 3rz for the power to weight and HP per liter numbers. Pretty impressive for that little engine. I feel like I could plumb an accumulator on one pretty easily to solve the worry about running it on odd angles...there is a pretty good deal in SC right now on a 3rz that already has a modified harness mated to a W56 and 4.7 case.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:18 pm Reply with quote
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StretchASU wrote:
Yeah I keep looking at the 3rz for the power to weight and HP per liter numbers. Pretty impressive for that little engine. I feel like I could plumb an accumulator on one pretty easily to solve the worry about running it on odd angles...there is a pretty good deal in SC right now on a 3rz that already has a modified harness mated to a W56 and 4.7 case.



See... That's what you need. My only question would be how was the harness modded..

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:42 pm Reply with quote
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Yotaoffroad27 wrote:
See... That's what you need. My only question would be how was the harness modded..


It's been cut down to the basics needed to make it run. Nothing else. If I was to do it I would leave the OBD port wired in for diagnostic purposes. For the $700 that ORS wants to thin a harness I'd learn to do it myself or pay you to do it haha.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:24 pm Reply with quote
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If my Puppy Mill ever dies, I'll probably swap in a 4.3 Chevy and use my existing everything else.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:43 pm Reply with quote
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5keepers wrote:
If my Puppy Mill ever dies, I'll probably swap in a 4.3 Chevy and use my existing everything else.



Jimmy.... You sick?

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 6:39 pm Reply with quote
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Nope. Shitloads of power, great aftermarket support, easy swap, and a reliable engine.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:38 am Reply with quote
StretchASU
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You could probably use most of your existing propane system as well on it and bump up to a little bit bigger mixer. Its tough to argue about them being plentiful and having lots of aftermarket support. But I think you'd be into some chromo outputs pretty quick as well. It would be neat to stumble across a marine 4.3 cam and try it out for our applications. They supposedly make more low end power and peak by about 4000rpm.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:47 am Reply with quote
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Speaking of engines, if anyone runs across a good deal on a low miles 3rz, let us know ... Colin's truck needs a heart transplant Sad
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:49 am Reply with quote
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speaking of marine cams. i got one.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 10:43 am Reply with quote
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DAWGTOY wrote:
speaking of marine cams. i got one.


There is a little gem to hold onto. Very Happy

Going to throw the 2RZ into the mix as well. 8HP less than the 3RZ but almost $600 cheaper from every yard around (as cheap as $360 for one with 140k on it). Daylon was right. Between the cost of a decent 22r and a propane kit its almost a wash once I figure in fuel system and thinning out the harness.

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The not so great engine debate
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